Maple v. Pau Ferro Board?? & Finishing Questions - Waterlox / Tung Oil - USA Custom-Gate - Gear Discussion - Fender Info-Base™ (F.I.B.™) - Message Board

Maple v. Pau Ferro Board?? & Finishing Questions - Waterlox / Tung Oil

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kidmag	Maple v. Pau Ferro Board?? & Finishing Questions - Waterlox / Tung Oil		Lead	[-]
Posts: 31 Thu, Mar 27, 2008 17:39:05	Tags : None Hi yall, thinking about a new project. I've done 3 guitars with Pau Ferro boards (on maple), but with my new project, the asthetics call for maple on maple. I've never owned a guitar w/a maple fretboard so I'm hoping for some opinions with regard to: - How do they feel, playing wise compared to ebony, rosewood or pau ferro? - What's the tone compared to a pau ferro board? - What finish would you suggest (I've alway gloss nitro'd my necks (sans the board))? Why? Thoughts definitely appreciated.... (by the way my project is a black alder strat /HSS pickup config / tortiose pickguard / black controls /1-piece maple neck). Last Edited By: kidmag Tue, Apr 1, 2008 17:05:47. Edited 2 times.
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javacody		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1099 Fri, Mar 28, 2008 03:17:51 FIB Humble Man of Steel	I don't care for gloss maple fingerboards myself, but I do like satin finished ones. To me, a satin finished maple board somehow feels faster (less drag?) than a gloss maple board. It seems to stay cooler, too? I think tone will be bright like Pau Ferro, probably between pau ferro and ebony, but I'm not an expert on either of these woods. Definitely brighter than your "average" rosewood. Finish, again I personally like satin. I'd go with poly if I were you, at least on the board, unless you want the vintage dirty finger wear spots in a few years that you get with nitro. I like satin because it feels faster to me (the gloss seems sticky somehow), and I think you may want your fingerboard to stay looking new, so I think that poly would be the way to go there. I'd highly recommend birdseye maple with paua shell dots, it looks really killer (this is what the only maple fingerboard I have has and I obviously love it). I'd wait to hear from Nocaster and the others, because these guys really know their stuff. Blah Blah Woof Woof -Jimi Hendrix Last Edited By: javacody Fri, Mar 28, 2008 13:13:06. Edited 1 time.
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nocaster		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 18224 Fri, Mar 28, 2008 03:41:55 The Big FIBer	Tone-wise, maple is quite similar to pau ferro, but of course it needs to be finished, and is not as dead-spot resistant. If you like the feel of wood, then satin poly is the way to go. Nitro stickies up no matter what you do. Personally, I'll never do another neck in nitro. You could also opt for gloss on the board and headstock face and satin on the back of the neck. Personally, I'd also opt for a 2-piece for the added strength, and then you can even opt for a figured board without too much compromise. i feel the weight of the world on my shoulder; as i'm gettin older ya'll people gets colder most of us only care about money-makin; selfishness got us followin the wrong direction wrong information always shown by the media; negative images is the main criteria infecting the [people's] minds faster than bacteria; [peeps] wanna act like what they see in the cinema
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kidmag		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 33 Fri, Mar 28, 2008 18:31:25	O.k. I'm definitely going Maple/Maple (played some guitars w/ all maple necks yesterdays). So let's talk * * * FINISHING! * * * I think poly is out for me - I want my board to age. Nitro is possible since I live in California and humidity is not really much of issue except for sometimes in Aug/sept. , and my nitro necks feel fine and are rarely sticky - I also don't sweat often playing and don't have accidic hands.. But they are admittadly a lot of work and I'm kind of game for something new. Also since everyone seems to dislike nitro neck finishes, I'm curious how much better another finish could feel. - Can anyone recommend a finish that will age gracefully (will darken with time)? Also I want something with a bit of coloring so the neck will lean toward a slightly aged look (not really yellow, just tinted amber bit). On my nitro necks I usually first rubbed the neck with boild linseed oil to get the grain to pop and then hit it with clear nitro - looks great to me, very slight but nice coloring. After doing searchs on this board and reading a tone of posts, I'm really curious about Tru Oil, Waterlox, and Tried & Trued Oil Varnish. thanks! Last Edited By: kidmag Fri, Mar 28, 2008 19:15:09. Edited 2 times.
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javacody		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1113 Sat, Mar 29, 2008 01:35:32 FIB Humble Man of Steel	I've used pure tung oil on a neck. It feels awesome! I first stained the neck with a very, very small amount of tea. I like it. It will probably be too brown for your tastes though, and most people don't trust a pure tung oil finish. However, there are several polymerized tung oils that would be much hardier, and I think waterlox is excellent. I've used it on an alder body and it did make it a nice brownish blonde color. It also seems to be a very sturdy finish. You can see photos of this body on my site: http://www.myjavaserver.com/~javacody/project/index.jsp By the way, said neck is still very, very straight and is holding up well several years later. I left it in the sun for several hours a day for several days to help speed up the cross-linking and hardening. Blah Blah Woof Woof -Jimi Hendrix
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RMosack		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3149 Sat, Mar 29, 2008 17:56:47 Contrib. Silver Charter Member	kidmag wrote: O.k. I'm definitely going Maple/Maple (played some guitars w/ all maple necks yesterdays). So let's talk * * * FINISHING! * * * I think poly is out for me - I want my board to age. Nitro is possible since I live in California and humidity is not really much of issue except for sometimes in Aug/sept. , and my nitro necks feel fine and are rarely sticky - I also don't sweat often playing and don't have accidic hands.. But they are admittadly a lot of work and I'm kind of game for something new. Also since everyone seems to dislike nitro neck finishes, I'm curious how much better another finish could feel. Well, it seems that as long as nitro is not out of the question for you, then there are easy solutions. I strongly recommend you check out the Guitar ReRanch website (http://www.reranch.com/). It's full of lots of information regarding finishing with nitro. They also sell very good products that are as easy as point and shoot aerosols. As far as liking or not liking nitro, opinions vary. If you're not concerned about the sticky bit (as Nocaster pointed out above), I believe that nitro may be the easiest finish out there to both execute and repair later. Nitro can be very forgiving (unlike poly finishes whose layers don't really melt into each other - making repairs difficult). - Can anyone recommend a finish that will age gracefully (will darken with time)? Yes, nitrocellulose lacquer will darken (yellow/tan) over time. Also I want something with a bit of coloring so the neck will lean toward a slightly aged look (not really yellow, just tinted amber bit). On my nitro necks I usually first rubbed the neck with boild linseed oil to get the grain to pop and then hit it with clear nitro - looks great to me, very slight but nice coloring. Again, check out the ReRanch. They sell a neck amber that is designed to do EXACTLY what you want. You can cover it with either gloss or satin to your own liking. They also sell a lacquer that's slightly tinited to give an aged appearance to any neck of body color (e.g. spraying multiple coats over Lake Placid Blue actually causes a slight greening of the finish, just like old guitars). For me, I've used both the neck amber and the tinted lacquer to darken up a few necks. After doing searchs on this board and reading a tone of posts, I'm really curious about Tru Oil, Waterlox, and Tried & Trued Oil Varnish. thanks! "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women." - The Governator
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javacody		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1124 Sun, Mar 30, 2008 19:02:22 FIB Humble Man of Steel	I agree with RMosack on the poly finishing difficulties. I've had to start over on more than one project because of sand through's. Not fun. Blah Blah Woof Woof -Jimi Hendrix
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Stratified		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 345 Sun, Mar 30, 2008 19:10:01 Bronze Member	I have two one piece maple strat necks. Aversion to stickiness of gloss finished necks is a personal thing; never been a problem for me. One of my necks is a 70s thick poly finish. Call me a perv, but I kinda like that slippery feel when bending strings. That poly will never, ever wear through to the fingerboard. I realize that most folks don't like the thick poly finish. My other neck is a thin skin nitro finish with a 50s tint amber underneath. In less than 3 years of lighter than average use and the neck is well on its way to a naturally relic-ed condition. 009 strings, lots of bluesy string bending and Clapton's Blackie here I come. My intention was to let it relic naturally, so its progressing as expected. From my research, Leo went to a rosewood fingerboard in 59 because of complaints about maple necks getting dirty where the nitro scraped off on the fingerboard. Tele's were all of, what, 8 years old by then? And nitro is tougher than any of the oil or varnish based finishes, so those would only be worse. One guy, a salesman in a guitar shop, mentioned that the G&L guitars with the maple necks with gunstock finish were hard to sell because the necks of the floor models got grungy quickly. G&L talks about regular maintanence (oil application), to keep the finish on the neck fresh. If you wait until after the neck darkens from finger tip oil/grungy, you'll just seal in the grungy. So I say, nitro if you can live with the relic look, poly if you can't, and tru-oil if feel of oil is more important than appearance. My 2 cents, discounted, free of charge.
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kidmag		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 34 Sun, Mar 30, 2008 23:11:47	Alright guys, thanks for the responses. After an exhaustive posting board readings, and on-line research, I think I'm going with Tru-oil (what is hiliarious is how there seems to be bias on the different methods from each board). Anyway, thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses. I not fan of poly for many reasons so I won't even go there. With nitro, well I've already done 3 nitro necks with reranch products with fantastic results actually, but I guess I was just wanting to try something different, kind of like the endless search for your tone, even though you've finally put together a fantastic amp/ guitar combo after a year or so of that sound the eye and ear starts wandering. Tung oil seems like it's too labor intensive and there are too many conflicting opinions out there (that tells me that application process can't be as easy as some say). I also like the fact that tru-oil should be fairly resiliant, but will evenutally age and wear. I'm not looking to make a relic, but if I hammer on the thing for 10 years, I'd like the little 6 stringer to show it. I'm also excited that some feel that the oils are faster playing that nitro. I don't consider it a problem, but when it gets hot and humid in the studio, or when the fog comes in off the ocean, it can make the nitro necks feel a tad sticky. So really curious to try out a new finish - maybe I"ll fall in love with it and wonder why I didn't try it sooner. Cheers fellas. Last Edited By: kidmag Sun, Mar 30, 2008 23:14:06. Edited 1 time.
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javacody		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1129 Mon, Mar 31, 2008 11:40:18 FIB Humble Man of Steel	Just be aware, that Tru Oil is less protective from moisture than nitro or poly. Don't shoot any videos in the rain with it. Blah Blah Woof Woof -Jimi Hendrix
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oldraftery	Neck	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 128 Tue, Apr 8, 2008 14:17:26 Contributing Bronze Member	I am probably too late to this thread, but perhaps you have not made a final decision yet. I know Nocaster feels that maple necks should be finished properly, but I finished mine in plain Tung Oil; and you can see how it has darkened after a couple/three years (you can see the neck "early on" in the avatar photo). Not only do I love how it is darkening, but I also love the glove-like feel or patina the neck has acquired. Not to wax too enthusiastic, but until this thing warps (I live in a humid climate, and no problems so far [knock on wood]) I will not even consider finishing a neck in anything else. All other necks seem plasticy and inorganic after playing my Tung Oiled one. It sounds silly, but every time I take my guitar from its case and see the darkened wood and feel it in my palm, it gives me joy. Thanks, Oldraftery Last Edited By: oldraftery Tue, Apr 8, 2008 17:17:43. Edited 1 time.
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Russell		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 354 Tue, Apr 8, 2008 16:31:03 Silver Member	Dear crew, If you have a good hard rock maple ('hard rock' is a dense type of maple - don't try this on southern/ eastern maple) with lotsa growth rings per inch use a good (read expensive) real tung oil or best of all a professional two part oil called Kunos (Google it - it's available on order) - best neck finish in the world if you ask me and the Kunos stuff resists going green over time (has a water resistant specification). Otherwize satin poly on the neck feels good and most sweaty types love it cause it doesn't drag. But, do not sand your neck finish to a smooth shiny finish because most retail polys (one pack) will not 'key' (stick) to shiny hard maple very well and lovers of vintage CBS poly finishes ocassionaly see their necks start to shed their skin once there is a break in the finish that lets in moisture or sweat/oil. I'm a nitro sprayer and we do a lot of nitro necks and I often scuff the backs with steel wool to give then a less grippy surface but his quickly polishes up regardless. All nitro goes amber over time but if I have to match a vintage peghead I use Stewmac 'vintage amber' colortone dye with a hint of 'medium brown' dye to take the yellow hue out of the amber. Always go one shade lighter when matching because the nitro will darken over time. Do not dye the wood directly as it will look terrible unless you are very lucky and exposed end grain will go v. dark. Hope this helps , Rusty (Tex)
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javacody		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1160 Wed, Apr 9, 2008 04:04:12 FIB Humble Man of Steel	Great advice. The only pure tung oil product I've used is Behlens. I've had excellent luck with it, but I've heard of others who thought it too thick (they may have gotten an old batch that had been on the shelf too long), but it is easy enough to thin. Most people hate the smell of Tung oil, but I love it, to me, its the smell of a freshly finished guitar neck or body. The nice thing about Tung oil, is that you can re-oil as needed. Each new layer is cross linked into the older layer. You must keep wax, silicone, etc. off of the finish though, otherwise this will cause problems when you try to add a new coat (from what I've read). Blah Blah Woof Woof -Jimi Hendrix
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kidmag		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 39 Wed, Apr 9, 2008 16:16:48	Dang it!! Oldraftery!!! Those pics are making me reconsider my tru-oil choice. Wow, your neck is exactly what I want.... hmmm - I've got some thinking to do here, noticed USACG just posted to my credit card a few days ago, so my neck s/b arriving any day now.
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bfurman		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1220 Sat, Apr 19, 2008 04:18:09 Contributing Silver Member	Some notes on finishing: Waterlox High Gloss is a phenolic varnish that is naturally amber and will darken with age. True to its name, it is very glossy and not terribly slick feeling. I haven't tried the other Waterlox products personally, but many people are happy with them. Tung oil is actually intended to yellow minimally over time, so the patina you get will be more subtle than with Tru-oil. The Waterlox Original has the lowest resin content and sheen. It penetrates well because it is thinner than most other varnishes. Consequently, you can use it as both sealer and topcoat. Sutherland Welles also makes fine tung oil varnishes with safer solvents. Expensive, but worth it. Tru-oil is a linseed-based product. It is dark to begin with and will darken more rapidly than any of the tung oil varnishes. Linseed oil is typically used on darker woods, like walnut. It will eventually reduce grain contrast. I'm very surprised that your previous nitro finishes took well to the linseed sealer. They're not generally considered compatible. Go with a shellac sealer and tinted nitro (as RMosack suggested) instead. -Ben
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Boris Bubbanov		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 Fri, Apr 25, 2008 07:44:30	nocaster wrote: Tone-wise, maple is quite similar to pau ferro, I agree. I prefer to use gloss nitro (Deft rattle can) on my maple necks. I think some individuals' metabolism does a number on nitro necks, sometimes to the point that once that fellow plays the neck, the nitro will have to be redone. If your guitar will be used by such a fellow, nitro can't be used. Otherwise it is great. Maybe one exception, though. If you play in the sultry South as I do, rosewood or pau ferro is so much better for absorbing sweat; the sweat has no where to go on a maple board, no matter the finish. We also can't use 100 percent pure tung oil down here; it doesn't want to go off and will just sit there. I've used 'tung oil finish' on a USACG one piece walnut body, but there's very little tung oil in that product, mostly synthetics that will catalyze and create a firm satiny finish. I have not yet tried tru-oil or waterlox on guitar necks. I usually like misting on tinted nitro to provide the neck with a headstart of aging between bottom and top layers of clear nitro, but my SSV-1 one inch maple cap is just Deft gloss nitro, with the 6105s cleaned up of nitro with 2000 wet or dry. The Deft is pre-heated in hot water before application. Once the wood had been sanded to 1200, no sanding, smoothing or buffing of the finish whatever. Looks great.
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